There's a pretty big difference between "absolutely mandatory to raid" and "easier to gear up". Every progressing raid MUST have 5% melee/ranged crit and 12% spell crit. Those players will be forced with a gun to their heads. PvP for the essence or your guild finds someone else who will.Only the melee crit, spell crit, smoke bomb, and maybe disc priest essences are truly mandatory, so it's a pretty easy fix. Just change them.
Ilvl/Gear/Achievements were also completely "mandatory" to be able to raid long before this talent idea came about. :) Don't forget we've been raiding without any PvP talents the entire expansion. Some guilds will continue on the same. Others will force it for progression. Then again wasn't BfA suppose to oppose class stacking? 'Cause that didn't happen either.Atleast PvE has a vendor though, amiright.
You get that stuff through PvE, which is the point we were actually discussing.No progressing guild will give up on 5% or 12% crit for the entire raid. Family/friends guilds doing normal mode, sure. Not progression.
You entirely missed my point in response to the whole "Poor PvE players being forced into PvP. Regardless, much like in PvP I guess PvE will now have new meta's.Welcome to the party?Else bring it up with Blizzard.
Can you explain your point further?And yes, I expect lots of people will be bringing it up with Blizzard by complaining in threads like this one.
Well realistically no ones being forced "into" PvP. They're basically adding some talents from PvP into PvE. This is no different from if they were to add them as extra Azerite traits.If that classes as making PvE dependent on PvP (on the standpoint of that people will be class stacking for damage % talents and such)then people should also be aware that it is common concept in regards to gearing for PvP via PvE and a lack of vendor (Which has come up very often over the months. And believe me heading into PvP ungeared with 125k hp is going to get you stomped) Both aspects in my opinion need looking at, balancing and reworking. I for one would like to see what they promised at the start of BfA.The removal of class stacking. Anything should be viable and useful in raids, as with PvP/DR teams. I remember when there was talks pre-BfA of all classes bringing their own raid buff. It's a shame that idea was sacked.
Ahh I see where the confusion lies. The only way to get these essences that grant PvP talents in PvE content is through PvP. So if you want your guild to have 12% spell crit in raids, you absolutely MUST PvP to get it.
Ah, then that is completely my bad there then. Apologies!Maybe it's Blizzards way of trying to make everyone try every aspect of the game, though then I also disagree with it. Forcing people into PvE or PvP is not a good idea. Balance PvE and PvP alike, keep them separate. People should be able to choose which option to put time into without feeling punished for not branching to the other too.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something entirely, this unlocks a talent "...to be used where PvP is normally enabled". PvP is not enabled for Raids/Dungeons and other Instanced situations, so it seems like this talent is only going to be accessible doing open world stuff (World Quests, for example).
No, it works everywhere.Tooltip says it "allows its use against all enemies of Azeroth".
I think this will make enhance shaman much more respectable in terms of AoE output in M+.
Some of these are absolutely mandatory for all raids going forward like Balance druids. There's zero chance this goes through.
Yes it's a loss. There's a blue post where they say all of these abilities aren't tuned yet and likely to change, so.... they are likely to change.
And to think I was about to shelf my MW. If Way of the Crane stays, you will not see any other healers anymore. As someone mentioned, pull half a dungeon, pop Way and spam SCK, everyone is immortal, and MW keeps up with the DDs just by spamming ONE ABILITY. Won't be too shabby for raids either, you'll just alternate between Way, Upwelling Font and Revival and DPS in the meantime. In conclusion, this will not make it to live. Maybe if they limit this to single target damaging abilities like melee wings on Palas, it could stay. Otherwise say bye to non Monk healers.
If you look at how the essence progresses with ranks, you'll realize Blizz actually discourages you from doing PvP to be better in PvE. Rank 1 is literally just fill up your PvP chest one week and you get it. Rank 2 and 3 require some rating to get, but here's the kicker: Major slot doesn't change at all between ranks, and minor slot, from PvE standpoint is actually better on rank 1 than it is on ranks 2 and 3! Rank 1 gives you a stacking up to 5 stacks versa for 8 seconds sometimes when you use abilities and a guaranteed stack when you suffer loss control, okay-ish for PvE. Ranks 2 and 3 give you versa for 14 secs, but only when you get CCd, without a chance to get it on ability cast, making it borderline useless for PvE. So suck it up, do some PvP activities to fill up ONE chest, get Rank 1, go back to forgetting PvP exists, done.